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Kahless and Sadie used to play a lot of tug of war. We think that could be how Sadie ruptured BOTH cruciate ligaments (knee joint ligaments) in her rear legs. Kahless is much bigger than Sadie and she is very stubborn; she doesn't like to lose so she won't give up. These dogs look incredibly strong, powerful and indestructible. Yet under certain circumstances they can sustain seriously painful and costly injuries which could potentially be crippling if not properly treated.

Here (10 months ago - Kahless was only 6 months old while Sadie was 2 1/2 years old) it should have been obvious to us that Kahless was too strong for Sadie. She's using her hind legs for brakes. Her limp didn't show up until recently but perhaps the damage began then.


Recently, Sadie suddenly began limping and seemed like she couldn't support much weight on first one leg then the other. We took her to the vet who took radiographs, made the diagnosis and then referred us to a surgeon. It will cost about $4,000 per leg to repair the damage and the recovery/rehab will take about 2-3 months per leg. If we had waited any longer to do the surgery she would have done irreparable damage to her knee joints possibly crippling her for the rest of her life.

Sadie goes in for her first surgery next week. Please wish her luck. My hope is that by sharing this experience we can spare other dogs and owners from the same fate.

This is a radiograph of the right leg:

Wow! This group is something else, 19 views and not one "good luck" or any kind of response?

Sadie is doing very well after surgery on her right leg according to her surgeon, Dr. Edward Leeds of Torrance California. She had her first post surgical follow up visit last Thursday.

It was a very touching 1 week reunion with Dr. Leeds and staff, he had instructed us to pull the Navigator up to the back door which opens into their parking lot. When we arrived a staff member, Frank, immediately came out to the car to see Sadie. Almost instantly Dr. Leeds appeared at the back of our SUV. He was followed by 6 or 7 other staffers all huddled around him.

Upon seeing the doctor, Sadie immediately got to her feet and inched her way toward the back door tail wagging happily. She went right up to the doctor’s face and started giving him lots of kisses on his ear while continuing to beat the interior side panels of the car with her tail. I was impressed that the doctor accepted her kisses with this big grin on his face and even pulled in closer to Sadie, hugging her tightly while she draped her head over his shoulder.

This guy REALLY LOVES Sadie and dogs in general. Sadie even left a nice big slobber slinger on his shoulder which an alert staffer quickly daubed off the good doctor’s shirt. All of the staffers seemed to be genuinely interested in Sadie and took turns petting her which she loved. There must have been 8 or 9 people from the office, including Dr. Leeds, out in the parking lot.

Sadie conveniently and safely stayed in the car for Dr. Leeds’ exam and he instructed us to begin a regimen of cleaning (with a warm water compress) and medicating her incision with Neosporin ointment twice daily. This is preparatory for the removal of the staples from the incision on Thursday.

I have NEVER felt so much goodness from any vet/surgeon EVER! Dr. Leeds obviously loves Sadie and she loves him. We are astonished at the goodness we feel there and that includes the staff we have interacted with.

Last night Sadie was laying down in her Ex-pen and Kahless wanted to play with her he came up and made noises through the bars at her and she responded by making her own noises. She is not supposed to have any interaction with the other dogs so we monitored this very closely. No problems, just love. He misses playing with her and vice versa. Kahless is finally used to seeing the big blue Pro Collar around her neck. When she first came home he stared for a long time and then ran like crazy in the other direction. I guess he got used to it.

Everything seems to be going better than we planned.

Dr. Leeds in a photo from his Website (he really does love dogs):


Sadie with her Pro Collar:


By the way, when we took Sadie in for her initial consultation 2 weeks ago, a breeder (Rottweilers) who showed up early for his appointment told us "You are going to love this doctor!" "I've had 8 surgeries done on different dogs over the last 5 years, 4 of them with Dr. Leeds and he is the best." That helped with the decision but what really convinced us was the initial consultation and the doctor's interaction with Sadie.

Thanks for this post and I hope your girl is doing well. My last mastiff played with my friend's st. bernard mix as a puppy and started limping. After confining him and giving him ascriptin (what the vets were recommending back then; now they push rimadyl) he did get better but growth plates were affected and he always had one leg that was slightly shorter than all the others. These babies don't know their limits and it is our job to protect them from themselves. Thank you for posting so that people can get a clear idea of what those limits are. Thinking of you and your clan and hoping that everything turns out okay.

Wow! Thanks for the warning! I let my dogs play like this all the time and never considered the damage on the weaker dog.
I wish Sadie the best of luck, and please keep us posted!

Thank you both for your replies.

Just thought I'd check in on the recovery of your girl. Hope your family is doing well!

Wow, I missed this discussion completely. I worry about Ozzie playing with Zoe and the shepherd mix next door. Mostly they wrestle, not so much tug of war. I hate to spoil ALL his fun however. Sammy the dog next door climbs his chain link fence and comes to our back door looking for the dogs. And when my dogs go out they go immediately back to the gate to see if Sammy is out. BFFs. LOL.

I hope she is doing well. We are taking your advice and being careful with our puppy. he is only 10 weeks and we are worried about the kids playing too rought with him. Good luck..

I feel your pain! My dog has a blown cruciate also, probably from playing. He injury is just one knee, thank goodness. Did you have the TPLO method done?

Luckily we purchased pet insurance and have 50,000 life time coverage at 80%, so we will be taking him to a specialist for the surgery.

How was the recovery? Biggie is only 18 mos and is still very much a puppy. Was it hard to confine him? I am not looking forward to the post op care!

(07-01-2010 06:53 PM)Danka Wrote: [ -> ]Just thought I'd check in on the recovery of your girl. Hope your family is doing well!

Thank you for asking ans sorry it took so long to reply. For some reason I did not receive an email notification of your post.

She is doing very well. She already started rehab after both surgeries.

We have an awesome doctor he really loves Sadie and vice versa:

When we took her in to have the staples removed 2 weeks ago he came out to the SUV and had his assistant Dr. Jenkins remove the staples there so Sadie wouldn't be stressed or have to walk unnecessarily.

Here they are before the staple removal:


That was 3 weeks ago. When we took her in for radiographs last week he said her bones were 100% healed on the first leg and 90% healed on the second leg. He gave us the green light to begin rehab. Slow leash walking for 5 minutes 3 times per day increasing 5 minutes per walk each week until the 4th week where we don't increase.

She is doing very well for having two TPLO surgeries. She should be good as new after 2 to 4 months of rehab. Our breeder insists that we get plenty of credit for taking such good care of her post op but I have to give most of the credit to my wife and our fantastic surgeon, Dr. Leeds. He is truly amazing and has a real love for and dedication to his patients.

---

Here are Dr. Jenkins and Frank (vet tech) removing her staples 3 weeks ago:


And then of course, one more kiss goodbye exchanged between doctor and patient:

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(07-12-2010 10:29 AM)keffri Wrote: [ -> ]I feel your pain! My dog has a blown cruciate also, probably from playing. He injury is just one knee, thank goodness. Did you have the TPLO method done?

Luckily we purchased pet insurance and have 50,000 life time coverage at 80%, so we will be taking him to a specialist for the surgery.

How was the recovery? Biggie is only 18 mos and is still very much a puppy. Was it hard to confine him? I am not looking forward to the post op care!

Good that you have insurance, we did not. It cost $9000 to have both legs done including the initial diagnosis. And a specialist is the ONLY way to go. An acquaintance we know had the TPLO done by a regular vet and it wasn't done correctly.

I interviewed 4 specialists before deciding on Dr. Leeds. He worked with Dr. Slocumb, the surgeon who invented TPLO and has taught TPLO etc. at Tufts University.

The post op care is very intense, MAKE CERTAIN that you build ramps over any stairs or step all inclines must be very gradual. We had to build two plywood ramps reinforced with 2x4's. We have one step from the back porch to the patio and another from the patio to the grassy area.

We use a 5x8' Ex Pen (about $50 from King Wholesale) for confinement. No doggie beds or anything to spongy to step on. Just a blanket or carpet. We had to carpet all slippery floors with runners so she wouldn't slip. It sounds daunting but if you just take the prep work one step at a time to make the area safe it will pay huge dividends and not be too difficult. Sadie was very active even after she was injured. So it was a big change for her to be confined. However, she seemed to know what was best for her and got used to confinement quickly. She would head straight back into her Ex Pen.

Here is a link for the Ex-Pen: Click

I would highly recommend the Pro Collar instead of the E-collar so long as your dog can't get at the incision. Sadie is pretty flexible so we would use the Pro Collar when we were at home and if we had to run to the store we would put the E-collar on instead.



Besides having a good specialist the home care is incredibly important. One slip or fall can undo all the good work Our breeder keeps giving us lots of praise for following the after care instructions to the letter. It must be working because Sadie's recovery is moving a little ahead of schedule.

Keffri, if you have any other questions please let me know.

I've been MIA for awhile - I was so sad to read about what happened but I'm glad she's doing well. Definitely something to think about with the tugging. I always worried about it pulling their hips out of whack, but it does look like it can be a strain on the knees, too.

I LOVE that your vet came out to your car.

(08-20-2010 03:17 PM)mydog8it Wrote: [ -> ]I've been MIA for awhile - I was so sad to read about what happened but I'm glad she's doing well. Definitely something to think about with the tugging. I always worried about it pulling their hips out of whack, but it does look like it can be a strain on the knees, too.

I LOVE that your vet came out to your car.

Thank you, he is a remarkable man and a wonderful surgeon. You can feel the genuine concern from him and his entire staff. Every time we go back for follow up, usually the entire staff comes out to say hello to her sometimes 6 or 7 people including Dr. Leeds. We were really lucky to find him.

I had never really heard of ruptured cruciate ligaments in dogs - just atheletes until our Sadie. Then after becoming more aware of the problem I find it's not uncommon. It does seem to be more prevalent in some breeds like Rotties. I recently heard of several Mastiffs needing the TPLO surgery for ruptured ACL's. So it does happen. Prevention is the best medicine. It is a very expensive procedure and the recovery and rehab are intense.

So glad she's doing well. I'm wondering if I should invest in pet insurance... Thanks for the update. They kind of become OUR babies on this site, don't they?

(08-21-2010 05:35 PM)Danka Wrote: [ -> ]So glad she's doing well. I'm wondering if I should invest in pet insurance... Thanks for the update. They kind of become OUR babies on this site, don't they?

Yes they sure do. Pet insurance is a good idea.

I'm so glad to hear your girl is on the mend. I'm a new owner of a 13-week old great dane and I am already paranoid and extra protective of him and his joints. He reminds me of Bambi on the ice when he gets on my hardwood floors. He's face-planted himself on a couple different occasions already. He's learning to walk carefully on the hardwood and save the jogging for the carpet. I'm going to be a nervous wreck until he gets a little older and gets a little more control.

(08-23-2010 06:57 AM)OwnedbyaDane Wrote: [ -> ]I'm so glad to hear your girl is on the mend. I'm a new owner of a 13-week old great dane and I am already paranoid and extra protective of him and his joints. He reminds me of Bambi on the ice when he gets on my hardwood floors. He's face-planted himself on a couple different occasions already. He's learning to walk carefully on the hardwood and save the jogging for the carpet. I'm going to be a nervous wreck until he gets a little older and gets a little more control.

Thank you... And congratulations on your new puppy!

I would be a concerned and protective also. And I wouldn't call it "paranoia." It has become even more apparent to us after our experience with Sadie how important it is to puppy & dog proof our home. Before her surgery we had to build two 5 foot plywood ramps and buy runners to cover all hardwood/tile flooring where she would walk during her recovery and rehabilitation.

(08-23-2010 06:57 AM)OwnedbyaDane Wrote: [ -> ]I'm so glad to hear your girl is on the mend. I'm a new owner of a 13-week old great dane and I am already paranoid and extra protective of him and his joints. He reminds me of Bambi on the ice when he gets on my hardwood floors. He's face-planted himself on a couple different occasions already. He's learning to walk carefully on the hardwood and save the jogging for the carpet. I'm going to be a nervous wreck until he gets a little older and gets a little more control.

You can't be too paranoid about this stuff

I recommend picking up some cheap rugs to throw down on the slippery floors, especially while he's growing. Slipping and sliding around while they're growing is thought to be an environmental cause of hip dysplasia. Check the bulk in-stock carpeting at home depot - they can cut runners to size for halls or main traffic paths, and it's pretty cheap.

(08-23-2010 02:13 PM)mydog8it Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-23-2010 06:57 AM)OwnedbyaDane Wrote: [ -> ]I'm so glad to hear your girl is on the mend. I'm a new owner of a 13-week old great dane and I am already paranoid and extra protective of him and his joints. He reminds me of Bambi on the ice when he gets on my hardwood floors. He's face-planted himself on a couple different occasions already. He's learning to walk carefully on the hardwood and save the jogging for the carpet. I'm going to be a nervous wreck until he gets a little older and gets a little more control.

You can't be too paranoid about this stuff

I recommend picking up some cheap rugs to throw down on the slippery floors, especially while he's growing. Slipping and sliding around while they're growing is thought to be an environmental cause of hip dysplasia. Check the bulk in-stock carpeting at home depot - they can cut runners to size for halls or main traffic paths, and it's pretty cheap.

Agreed! Best to err on the side of caution. So much pain, suffering and expense could be prevented with careful planning and consideration. They depend upon us for protection.


So where did you go MIA for so long mydog8it?

(08-23-2010 02:27 PM)robo21 Wrote: [ -> ]So where did you go MIA for so long mydog8it?

Dealing with a long series of personal crap (excuse the pun), family health issues, then Harley died, and Mowgli hasn't been doing so well. It's been hard to find the time to hang out online.

(08-23-2010 06:44 PM)mydog8it Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-23-2010 02:27 PM)robo21 Wrote: [ -> ]So where did you go MIA for so long mydog8it?

Dealing with a long series of personal crap (excuse the pun), family health issues, then Harley died, and Mowgli hasn't been doing so well. It's been hard to find the time to hang out online.

Our sincere condolences on your loss. I understand and we are sending prayers and healing energy for Mowgli. Hang in there...