Ozzie, the runt of the litter

[Gleasonsmom]

Hi to all, I'm new to this group and happy to find it since we are novice mastiff owners. Our guy is almost 11 weeks old, and is looking good, playing well, and a lot of fun. Thank goodness for our labradoodle, Zoe, as she is doing a good job of pup-sitting. Ozzie came to us through friends who knew the breeder. She had a litter of 10 pups and Ozzie, the runt, was barely a pound at birth, and 6.5 pounds at 8 weeks. The rest of the litter was 11.5 - 19 pounds at that 8 week vet appointment. He was the favorite of the breeder and her grandson, and they were looking to give him to an especially good home, and we were it. We took him with us to Zoe's vet appointment and weighed him at 9 1/2 weeks, and he was 8.2 pounds. He goes back for his second round of shots at 11 weeks so we'll have to see what he weighs then. We walk Zoe twice a day, 1.7 miles each walk, and my first inclination was to walk Ozzie too, mostly to teach him to walk on a leash. So we did a shorter walk, and he did fine, but when we measured it in the car it was exactly a mile. Now I see from this site that that isn't a good idea, so we will assume that his playing with Zoe is enough, at least for a while. I joked that he was my "teacup mastiff", hence the picture.

[Mseb0810]

Looks like a cutie!!!! We are in the same situation. 11 week old puppy (st. Bermastiff) with three older sibilings to play with. Hope the potty training goes well!

[Gleasonsmom]

(12-01-2009 10:28 AM)Mseb0810 Wrote:  Looks like a cutie!!!! We are in the same situation. 11 week old puppy (st. Bermastiff) with three older sibilings to play with. Hope the potty training goes well!

I LOVED your puppy pictures! What a great face. I only just found this group this morning so I had to sign myself up to make any comments. It will be interesting to see how these guys grow. Last night we saw a Keeshond puppy almost exactly Ozzie's age, and that puppy was bigger than he is. Of course how much puppy was under all that fur is another question.

I keep thinking that Ozzie 'gets it' potty wise, and then he pees in the house. LOL. He LOVES his crate, so that's a help. I've always gotten Zoe out once in the night, so somewhere between 2 and 3 AM we are all out in the backyard. But he gets right down to it, and goes back in the crate with no problems. We are nuts about him already. It took Zoe a couple of days to accept him, which surprised us because she's always seemed to love puppies, but he's her baby now!

[mydog8it]

That picture is too funny. Did you photoshop it or did he really fit in a tea cup?!

[Gleasonsmom]

That is a planter from Walmart. It's the size of a big mixing bowl. I'd been joking about my teacup mastiff for a week when it dawned on me that I'd seen these planters over the summer, and I had to go get one right away. So I guess the answer is yes, he really fit in that teacup! LOL.

[mydog8it]

How cute. It will be fun to see how big he gets when he's full grown.

[Gleasonsmom]

Okay, Ozzie's growth goes as follows.

Birth, 'barely a pound'
8 weeks... 6 pounds 5 ounces
9 1/2 weeks... 8.2 pounds
11 weeks... 13.6 pounds

Ten years ago we had a vet caution us about not feeding puppy food to our bulldog, and we were thinking that the same thing would apply to a mastiff. This vet, however, says no, and wants him on a large breed puppy food, and I found one online called Black Gold. If anyone has any info on it please let me know.

Happily the vet declared that Ozzie looks really good, he's just a peanut...

[mydog8it]

Oh, good - I'm glad he's doing well.

I have never heard of Black Gold. Is it maybe Solid Gold Large Breed? I know you can get that at Petco. There are links to a few more premium brands here: http://www.i-tails.com/great-dane-mastif...-feed.html

I know a lot of people that visit these boards feed Innova Large Breed Puppy. I fed Eagle Holistic Select Large/Giant Breed Puppy as it was highly recommended by several breeders, and was very pleased with the results. It appears the Holistic Select label may have been sold recently (it's no longer on the eagle pack website) and I'm not sure if it is the same product it was in the past.

[Gleasonsmom]

http://blackgolddogfood.com/welcome.htm

Here is the link for the Black Gold food. I've gotten a little lost in the discussion of the different foods, so if you can take a peek and let me know what you think it would be great. I found the food through looking at mastiff info, and it is available at a feed store not too far away. The price was right also, which helps a lot. Although when I went to get some the gal who worked there talked me into getting Pride Pro instead. She suggested that the adult Pride Pro would probably be a great food for both dogs. The breeder had Ozzie on Pedigree Puppy food (which I assume isn't great), so I got some of that and I've been mixing it about half and half with the Pride Pro. I've also been mixing the labradoodle's food with it in hopes of getting both dogs onto the same food by the time I'm finished with the 104 (!) pounds of dog food I had in the house. Ozzie seems to be doing very well on it, from what I can see anyhow. Not sure if Pride Pro has a large breed puppy food, but the Black Gold definitely did.

I did look over your info about treats for the mastiffs and I really appreciate seeing that info. My husband likes to give the dogs food from his plate (drives me nuts), so people food that's healthier for them might be just the thing to pacify my husband... maybe...

[mydog8it]

Well, this is probably not what you want to hear, but personally, I would not feed that.

To determine the main "bulk" of any food, you should look at the first few ingredients that come before the main (first) fat source. In this case, it is chicken by-product meal and corn meal. I will not feed anything with by-products. Corn is basically a filler and usually = more poop.

In my opinion, it is too high in protein and fat for a giant breed (there is no info on the amount of calcium/phosphorus in their online analysis). I would be worried about potential growth issues.

The food appears to be lacking glucosamine and probiotics, which I feel are important. You can always supplement these though.

Here are a couple of good articles on why feeding a good quality food while your puppy is growing is so important:
http://www.eaglepack.com/EP_largeGiantBr...eases.html
http://www.eaglepack.com/EP_largeGiantBreed_puppy.html

There's a nice short article from a canine nutritionist with some helpful information on choosing a puppy food here: http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/ho...y_food.htm

As far as more moderately priced options for adult dogs, I like Canidae. The pricing is more reasonable than many of the other premium brands, and they use human grade meats which is nice.

The best "cheap" adult dog food I have found is Costco's Kirkland brand. It doesn't contain by-products & is all-natural. It does have the controversial beet pulp in it, which some say is good and others say is bad. I believe it's made by Diamond, but I'm not sure. For a puppy, I would still stick with a good high-end premium food though.

[Ileana]

(12-08-2009 03:39 PM)mydog8it Wrote:  Well, this is probably not what you want to hear, but personally, I would not feed that.

To determine the main "bulk" of any food, you should look at the first few ingredients that come before the main (first) fat source. In this case, it is chicken by-product meal and corn meal. I will not feed anything with by-products. Corn is basically a filler and usually = more poop.

In my opinion, it is too high in protein and fat for a giant breed (there is no info on the amount of calcium/phosphorus in their online analysis). I would be worried about potential growth issues.

The food appears to be lacking glucosamine and probiotics, which I feel are important. You can always supplement these though.

Here are a couple of good articles on why feeding a good quality food while your puppy is growing is so important:
http://www.eaglepack.com/EP_largeGiantBr...eases.html
http://www.eaglepack.com/EP_largeGiantBreed_puppy.html

There's a nice short article from a canine nutritionist with some helpful information on choosing a puppy food here: http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/ho...y_food.htm

As far as more moderately priced options for adult dogs, I like Canidae. The pricing is more reasonable than many of the other premium brands, and they use human grade meats which is nice.

The best "cheap" adult dog food I have found is Costco's Kirkland brand. It doesn't contain by-products & is all-natural. It does have the controversial beet pulp in it, which some say is good and others say is bad. I believe it's made by Diamond, but I'm not sure. For a puppy, I would still stick with a good high-end premium food though.

Do you have a Trader Joe's in your area? That is what my vet recommended for my dogs as a low price food. You seem very knowledgeable and I would like your opinion. Here is the list of ingredients:
Chicken Meal, Ground Brown Rice, Whole Ground barley, Fish Meal, Chicken, Chicken Fat (Naturally preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, Citric Acid and Rosemary Extract), Dried Beet Pulp, Amaranth, Oatmeal, Tomato Pomace, Dried Egg Product, Flaxseed, Canola Oil, Dehydrated Apples, Cheese Meal, Ground Carrot Cubes, Air Dried Peas, Sun-Cured Alfalfa, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Chicory Extract, Blueberries, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Beta-Carotene, DL-Methionine, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Choline Chloride, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Ascorbic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Dehydrated Kelp, Polysaccharide Complexes of Zinc, Iron, Manganese, Copper and Cobalt Potassium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dandelion, Garlic, Aspergillus Oryzae, Fermentation Soluables, B. Subtillus Fermentation Soluables, Enterococcus Faecium, and Lactobacillius Acidophilus.

Ive been feeding to my dogs for about 6 months now. I like it so far. It's only 19.99 for a 20 lbs bag.

[mydog8it]

(12-08-2009 03:55 PM)Ileana Wrote:  Chicken Meal, Ground Brown Rice, Whole Ground barley, Fish Meal, Chicken, Chicken Fat (Naturally preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, Citric Acid and Rosemary Extract), Dried Beet Pulp, Amaranth, Oatmeal, Tomato Pomace, Dried Egg Product, Flaxseed, Canola Oil, Dehydrated Apples, Cheese Meal, Ground Carrot Cubes, Air Dried Peas, Sun-Cured Alfalfa, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Chicory Extract, Blueberries, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Beta-Carotene, DL-Methionine, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Choline Chloride, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Ascorbic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Dehydrated Kelp, Polysaccharide Complexes of Zinc, Iron, Manganese, Copper and Cobalt Potassium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dandelion, Garlic, Aspergillus Oryzae, Fermentation Soluables, B. Subtillus Fermentation Soluables, Enterococcus Faecium, and Lactobacillius Acidophilus.

These ingredients look great to me. Here are the positives that I see:
No by-products, preservatives, no artificial flavors or colors, no added sugar, large amounts of corn or salt. No unspecified "animal" fat/meal/protein/digest/by-product or unspecified "meat and bone meal" (these can actually come from dead dogs! gross!)
Four protein sources: Chicken , fish, alfalfa and egg (I look for at least 2, so this is great)
Three fat sources: Chicken, Flax and Canola
A variety of fruits, vegetables and grains
Kelp for trace minerals
Flax & Fish add omega fatty acids
Glucosamine for joint health
Lactobacillius Acidophilus for digestive & immune health, though I'd probably still supplement with a live probiotic that contains multiple strains

The things you can't tell from the ingredient list, but I usually look for are:
1. Ratios of protein, fat, calcium and phosphorus. For adults, ideal protein and fat will depend on your dog's activity level and age. For mine, two of them are old and lazy so I don't feed high protein/high fat foods. High protein foods can be hard on the kidneys, too, so again this just depends on your dog. Especially for giant breed puppies, all four need to be balanced for healthy growth.
2. Human grade meats and general processing - some foods will use human grade meats, others don't. So many foods are made by a few large companies and then just re-labeled, so finding out who makes the food, where they source ingredients, where the food is processed, and whether or not the manufacturer has been involved in recalls is helpful to know.

[Gleasonsmom]

Thanks for the input. I asked to get your opinion, even if I wish the news had been better. I do want to do right by the little guy, who is growing like a weed btw. I make the mistake of reading the write up about the food, where they claim that it's the greatest food going. I need to just go to the ingredients, and now I know better what to look for. I'll need to compare the brands you mentioned to the stores I have nearby, and go from there. I really do appreciate it.

[AmyH]

So glad to hear Ozzie is "growing like a weed"! He is such a cutie!! When we got Dakota she was very tiny as well, only about 10.5 lbs (which seemed very small considering Duke was 17lbs when we brought him home) but after about a week (and an allergic reaction to a spider bite) her weight started to pick up and she is looking much better now.
Looking forward to more pics as Ozzie grows up :-)

[Gleasonsmom]

(12-10-2009 10:44 PM)AmyH Wrote:  So glad to hear Ozzie is "growing like a weed"! He is such a cutie!! When we got Dakota she was very tiny as well, only about 10.5 lbs (which seemed very small considering Duke was 17lbs when we brought him home) but after about a week (and an allergic reaction to a spider bite) her weight started to pick up and she is looking much better now.
Looking forward to more pics as Ozzie grows up :-)

Hi, I don't think we've seen pictures of Dakota have we? We took Ozzie to the vet with Zoe on Tuesday this week (she had a little yeast in her ear that we've been clearing up). He weighed 15.8 pounds, so he had picked up 2 pounds in four days. This amazes me, but looking at the other growth charts it's nothing unusual. There are things about him that I particularly appreciate. He is pretty calm, so you can pet him and he's not just a squirming bundle of nerves the way some puppies can be. When they are out back Zoe (labradoodle) is racing around trying to find a squirrel or lizard to chase, and Ozzie finds himself a patch of sun and lays down to chew a stick! I wonder if Zoe realizes that the puppy who flings himself at her to wrestle is way bigger than he was. He has been the easiest puppy to deal with, and we've raised a few, but we aren't working now and live in a small one story house with a nice backyard, so I'm sure that's part of it. Anyhow, he's really NICE, we are in love.

[mydog8it]

(12-11-2009 05:43 AM)Gleasonsmom Wrote:  ...Ozzie finds himself a patch of sun and lays down to chew a stick!

LOL! Typical mastiff. They have their moments, but for the most part their calm nature is there right from the start.

I'm glad the info on the food was helpful.

[Gleasonsmom]

You know what's really changing quickly on Ozzie? His paws! I suppose they were big for the size of the rest of him when we got him, but it really wasn't particularly noticeable. But now? He looks like he has snowshoes on! Oh my, he really IS going to get big isn't he? LOL.

[nicole.long84]

(12-11-2009 02:25 PM)Gleasonsmom Wrote:  You know what's really changing quickly on Ozzie? His paws! I suppose they were big for the size of the rest of him when we got him, but it really wasn't particularly noticeable. But now? He looks like he has snowshoes on! Oh my, he really IS going to get big isn't he? LOL.

DO you have any recent pictures of Ozzie? Just wanted to see the size difference he is soo cute!

[Gleasonsmom]

    OOps, I remember how to add a photo now... I have tried to put a new photo in at least three times. I hope I'm not driving everyone crazy. Ozzie is 12 weeks today and weighs about 21 pounds (using the bathroom scale).

[nicole.long84]

(12-18-2009 06:04 AM)Gleasonsmom Wrote:  OOps, I remember how to add a photo now... I have tried to put a new photo in at least three times. I hope I'm not driving everyone crazy. Ozzie is 12 weeks today and weighs about 21 pounds (using the bathroom scale).

AWWW...just adorable! We are using the bathroom scale too, but this week it said on change so I think we will be taking him the the pet store to weigh him now, don't think the bathroom scale can take anymore! LOL